That’s what’s on this week’s episode of Non-Monogamy Help.

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Podcast Transcript

All my partners have primary partners. Everyone I chat with online is the same! I don’t have a primary and would like to build long term, secure partnerships. For now, I feel pretty secondary to other metas, and that is fine (its not a veto situation or anything), and it can still make me feel a bit insecure.

My partners make time for me, and I deeply appreciate and enjoy this time we have together (they choose to spend it with me!).  Still, I am struggling to not compare what I have with their other relationships and see how my relationships might be something more than once a week side hook ups?

None of these people will ever live with me, because they are committed to others in this way. They rarely or never spend the night (and I ask them to). I asked for a get away from one (now ex) and was offered a day at the local beach. Nice, but not the same thing.

I am not necessarily wanting traditional relationship ladder things, but what other things can I look for in my current relationships to help me feel more secure? Or just stop comparing - we all know it is the thief of joy.

I know Polysecure talks a little about this, but in my experience many of what is discussed in the book have already been reserved for anchor partners (eg fluid bonding  weekends away, over nights).

Response

So I'm a little bit—it's hard to tell from the letter if you want to be in your situation or not. And that's kind of the question that I have, because this situation that you have is kind of like almost my ideal situation, in a way.

I'm not interested in relationship escalator or relationship ladder things—either one, ladder or escalator, you get the point. And you say you're not necessarily wanting that either. I don't really want to live with anybody. Cohabitation is not something that I think I will ever want again. I could maybe change—it would depend on the cohabitation arrangements—but it's not something that I am actively seeking out.

And you say that none of them will ever live with you, but you don't say if that's what you want.

Reasonable request in polyamory

The things that you've asked for, I think, are super reasonable, and were things that anyone would ask for. Like, spend the night… they rarely ever spend the night with you, which is a bit, you know, like, what? And you want to do a getaway thing, and you get offered a day out, but not a total getaway.

I don't think anything that you're asking for is—I mean, even if you did have another primary partner, that's the thing. Even if you had another primary partner, you would still probably ask for some of these things anyway. I don't see what—it's just more noticeable to you because you don't have a primary partner, but none of the things you've asked for are out of the scope of what someone else who did have a primary partner would ask for.

So I think maybe—you know, sometimes, yes, when you come across as—if one person calls you an asshole, they're having a bad day. If another person's calling you an asshole, you're having—I don't remember what that whole thing is, but basically, after three times, maybe you're the common denominator. But I don't necessarily think that this is the case here.

I mean, I could be wrong, but I feel like maybe you've just had a series of people with primary partners who have been—I don't know, maybe they've had rules, or they're in really restrictive partnerships where they're not allowed to do some of these basic-ass things. I just feel like none of the things you've asked for are that wild. It's not like you're necessarily asking them to spend the night every single week.

So I don't think that anything you're asking for is necessarily a problem.

Comparison in polyamory

And I don't think actually comparison is out of line in this situation. I talk a little bit about this—I have talked a bit about it, I think, in my 101 and 102 articles, and also in some of the columns. Sometimes comparison is apt. It's not necessarily about the relationship, but that's the thing.

If you're in a monogamous situation, and your partner isn't doing something that you wish that they would do, then sometimes you kind of have to go, "Well, am I going to stay in this relationship? That's the price of admission. They're never going to do this thing with me. I guess I kind of have to accept that."

And the thing about polyamory is that you're in the same situation. Sometimes you're like, "Okay, I guess they're never going to do this thing with me. I kind of have to accept that." And then if you see them doing it with somebody else, you're like, "Hey, wait, you can do that thing. So what's the deal?"

And I think that comparing relationships, in that case, is not uncalled for, because it's not necessarily about you and the other person. You're not comparing yourself with the other person—you're comparing what your partner's doing with that other person, like activities and types of things, with the types of things they're doing with you.

And I don't think that's—I think that that's a good thing that your brain is doing. Your brain is going, "Hey, there's some inequity here. We want to do these things. Why can't we do these things?"

Exclusivity in non-monogamy

And the thing is, I have had relationships and there are certain times in non-monogamy—we are used to culturally seeing exclusivity as a sign of specialness, right? That's the whole point. You're exclusive to one person; that makes the relationship special.

Sometimes within the context of non-monogamy and wanting to make relationships special, we may do something exclusively only with one person, even if we are non-monogamous. I had a partner at one point that—they only went to theme parks with me, and I never asked for that rule. I never—that was never something I asked for or even really cared about, but it was something that they did because they wanted to have this special thing with me, right?

And that can sometimes be really meaningful. Even if you are the person that has a partner who's saying, "Hey, I only do this thing with this other person," you can be okay with that.

Because, like, for example, if I really hated hot pot, and my partner was like, "I only go with so-and-so to hot pot because that's a big thing we bond over. We go to hot pot together, and that's a big thing. And I would only like to do that with my partner," I wouldn't care, because if I don't like it, it doesn't really bother me. And that exclusivity—as long as it's a dictated and understandable exclusivity—I don't personally mind that sort of thing.

But I think that if you're in situations where things are being kept exclusive, and you gave me a little bit more detail that you don't want me to share, which is fine—if you are in a relational context where certain things are kept exclusive, and you're not being given an alternative to that, or you're not being offered something exclusive, or you're also not getting some of the basic things you need, then yeah, that exclusivity is going to bother you.

But I don't think it's necessarily about the exclusivity. It's actually about the mismatch of needs. It's about—if exclusivity is going to be something that represents something special, then maybe something should also be exclusive to you, if that makes sense.

Restrictions on others in polyamory

So yeah, I think the things that you've mentioned—I don't think you need to seek out other things. I think you've mentioned things that aren't even necessarily relationship escalator things. They're basic things that people do in relationships: spending the night over at each other's houses, or going on trips, or doing things with each other, activities with each other. That's the thing you do with friends.

I genuinely am confused as to why this is not okay with your partners. I think that maybe what you need to do is less looking for things that make your—that you can do with others, and more actively seeking out partners who don't have these types of restrictions, or at least can give you a heads-up before you're in a relationship with them about these types of restrictions, so that you don't end up in a situation where you're like, "Hey, maybe we can do this and this together," and they go, "No, sorry, can't."

And then, especially if they're not then bringing something else to the table. Because that's another aspect of it. It's a lack of reciprocity. It's sort of like, if my partner who did have that rule was like, "Yeah, I only go to theme parks with so-and-so," if my partner were to say, "Okay, I only go to theme parks with you. This other thing, I'm only going to go to massages with this person"—I don't even know—I would be like, "Okay, that's fine. That's fair." I wouldn't be mad about that.

Comparison can be apt

So I just—yeah, comparison is the thief of joy. And if you were sitting there and you were—if you both, if you went out, spent the night with your partner, right? Like, if you were allowed to do that (which I again have no idea as to why you can't do that in these relationships), if you spent the night with your partner, and you were comparing the nights you spent with your partner with—and you were making up stories about the nights that they spent with other people, and you were comparing yourself to them, and you were like, "Am I as fun? Are our nights as cool?" Or you were really trying to make—putting so much effort into these nights to make them really unique and really special, because you felt like they had to compete with the other—that would be the comparison. That would be the thief of joy.

The thief of joy is the person who's not even letting you spend the night or spending the night with you. That's the thief of joy here. I'm astounded. That is a basic thing.

I genuinely have so many questions. It's fine—I don't like—I'm a very specific sleeper, and the prospect of spending the night somewhere else other than my house is not something that I necessarily look forward to. I have friends who I've slept over with because I'm familiar with those surroundings, so I'm way more comfortable with it. But anytime I have to go to a hotel or a night—I am not looking forward to any of that. Not at all whatsoever. And I am just absolutely—yeah, that doesn't fill me with joy.

But if I'm going to spend the night with a partner, and we can make that environment that's a little bit safer for me, a little bit more comfortable for me, then yeah, that's absolutely something that can happen.

Or sometimes people have logistical reasons. Maybe you can't—I had a time period where I had a partner, where we had no space for guests. We didn't have space to even have friends over to watch something. The apartments that we lived in, the living room was our bedroom. So there was no space for jack shit. And so situations like that, I can totally understand where you can't spend the night over.

But are there reasons for that? And if not—I assume if they don't spend the night at your house and you're asking them to, you have space for that, and you're more than willing to accommodate little idiosyncrasies about sleeping arrangements and things like that. You're willing to try. Other than that, I really don't understand.

Reacting to exclusivity in polyamory

Yeah, I don't understand. I don't think there's anything wrong with the things that you seem to want, the things that you seem to be requesting. I think that if there's some sort of exclusivity—it's okay for that to not be something that you react well to, because that does present a kind of pedestal thing, almost. Not necessarily a pedestal thing, but I do think that if you have one partner, and you say, "I only do this with this partner," that's fine, but I think that then you kind of need to open up the prospect of maybe having something exclusive with your other partner. Do you know what I mean?

If it's about creating something special, then if you decide and you may send the message that creating something special means exclusivity then you should be open to creating something special with more than one person, if that's the case, and it has to be something that kind of works.

And I think that exclusivity may be something you want to think about in your relationships. How do you deal with exclusivity? Are you okay with exclusivity? Are you fine if this person only does those types of things with their partner? Okay, that's fine. Well, what can they do with you that's exclusive? Is that an option that's open and it hasn't been explained to you? I would think about your feelings around that.

And if you do want to have somebody who lives with you, if you're seeking out an anchor partner, or a primary—however you want to phrase it—or someone who lives with you, then I definitely think you should search for that. Because I think if that's something you're always looking for, then there is going to be an aspect of other relationships where you don't have it that's going to make you a little bit sad.

But if you're fine—if you're like, "Look, I do"—you said you want meaningful partnerships, or you said that you want long-term, secure partnerships. Those don't have to necessarily be primary partnerships. Long-term partnerships, long-term secure partnerships can be partnerships where people don't live with you, where they have other partners, where they have other primary partners. That can totally work. Is that something that you want? That's the question.

So yeah, to sum up, I think if the situation you're in—being more independent and not having a live-in partner—is something that you want, then everything that you've asked for is reasonable, even if you did have a live-in primary partner.

I think that maybe you need to do a little bit more screening or ask upfront, when you form a new relationship or with the relationships you currently have—it's okay to ask for scheduled, dedicated time, especially as a person who is a quote-unquote "secondary." The reason you feel secondary is—they may schedule their time with the person that they live with, because they live with them, and there's certain physical aspects that have to be scheduled.

So you can ask for these things, and if they are not willing to give them to you, then ask yourself if that's a relationship that you necessarily want to be in, because there are people who do have primaries that they live with who are totally willing to give you scheduled, dedicated time, even if they have some things they only do exclusively with their primary. They still can give you that.

So I think you should from the outset say, "Hey, I'm looking for someone who could spend the night with me sometimes. I'm looking for someone who will do X, Y, Z with me sometimes, and is that something that you can do in your current partnership? Please let me know now." Just as a heads-up, because it's okay for you to want those things and to ask for those things.

There's nothing about those things that I think—I think those are very normal things, even within the context of friendship. So are they not allowed to spend any nights with their friends? Do they never leave their house? Do they not go on trips with their friends? I don't know. It's just a little mind-boggling to me.

It's okay to have exclusive things, like I said, but yeah, maybe think as well about exclusivity, and how you feel about that, and whether or not—because there are some people who don't do any exclusive things at all. And I don't think having exclusive things is necessarily a bad thing, but I do think that it's something that you—especially somebody who, you know, I don't think that living together always means that you have quality time together. I do think that sometimes living together can mean that person gets overlooked.

So I wouldn't necessarily always assume the grass is greener, but it is harder to schedule and harder to be a priority in someone's schedule if you're not an immediate physical reminder that you're there, more or less. So that's totally fair.

So yeah, I hope that helps, and good luck.