That’s what’s on this week’s episode of Non-Monogamy Help.

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Podcast Transcript

I have a question. Is it possible to be KTP [kitchen table polyamory] with some partners and parallel with others.

As a little bit of back ground, me and my wife practice KTP with my girlfriend and her local boyfriend. My wife has a 2nd boyfriend that I have a lot of issues with, mainly in the way he speaks about me to my wife and how her treats her.

I love my KTP set up with my partner, wife, and her BF, but her other partner makes me feel unsafe.

Is it possible to be kitchen table and also parallel.

Thank you so much for all that you do. Your book and podcast have helped me a lot with my poly(am) journey.

Response

To answer your question, yes, I think so. I think it's possible for you to be kitchen table polyam and also have parallel relationships, but it all depends on what you agreed with your wife and your girlfriend and her boyfriend. And was there a discussion of any additional people joining that kitchen table? Was there an assumption that that would happen regardless?

Like, if your girlfriend's boyfriend got another girlfriend, is that girlfriend automatically included? Has there been a discussion about who gets in… I feel like saying "the inner circle," but that feels very Meet the Fockers and kind of a weird thing. That doesn't feel very positive, but you see what I'm saying? Have you had that discussion of who gets included and who doesn't get included and what that means?

I don't know if—you've said the second boyfriend speaks about you—you said you don't like the way he speaks about you to your wife and how he treats her. Oh, this is so hard, because you can't be like, "This guy's an ass, man. Why are you dating him? He's an ass." And I'm sure that you're probably not the only one who thinks that way. But it's—sometimes… there's an amazing book that I recommend to everyone to read, regardless of whether you're monogamous or polyamorous, called "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft. I definitely recommend you read that. It's about kind of abuse patterns and how to support someone in an abusive situation. I'm not saying that the second boyfriend is abusive, but I'm just saying, based off of what I know—as much as we all in those situations want to be like, "Oh my god, dump the motherfucker already," sometimes that doesn't really help.

But it's totally fine. I think absent of how intensely bad this second boyfriend seems based off of the information that you've given me—and I don't know if, I mean, if your wife is telling you the things that her second boyfriend has told you—how did you figure out how he speaks about you to your wife? Were you physically there to witness it, or did your wife tell you? And if your wife told you, why did your wife tell you? What was the point and utility of that?

Yeah, I just think it's possible, but I think that you shouldn't be the one unilaterally deciding this. And unfortunately, the thing with kitchen table is—I guess it depends on what the agreements were. Kitchen table can exist in all forms and ways. I see the most egalitarian or democratic way of doing that as you all kind of vote on who gets to be included, because theoretically, what if your girlfriend's local boyfriend has another girlfriend and you all don't get along with that person? What if your girlfriend finds another boyfriend, and you don't get along with that boyfriend? Not that he's done anything bad, but you just don't vibe. It's possible.

This is the problem that I kind of have with kitchen table polyamory, is that sometimes people don't get along, and it's not because anyone did anything wrong. Clearly it doesn't seem like the second boyfriend is a good person. I mean, I'm going off of what you're telling me, so you haven't given specific examples, so I don't know if that's the case or not. But either way, sometimes people just don't gel. They just don't gel.

And living—it's kind of like living in a roommate situation, right? Obviously, you don't need to be best friends with your roommate, but you need to get along. And it's kind of shitty to live in a house where you don't get along with all the people. It's strained. It's not the funnest situation. So I find it hard to imagine kitchen table scenarios where every single—the bigger it grows, the more likely it is that two people are not going to gel well.

And I just don't know—how have you discussed how that's managed? It just kind of seems like this has grown organically, which is fine. That's kind of, in a way, the best way for these things to happen, right? It's like, "Okay, we get along, you come along. We get along, you come along." It's kind of like a nice way for things to grow, rather than forcing it. Rather than being like, "We're a kitchen table now and all of these people must live together, and we must all get along." That's no fun.

But what I would do is that if boyfriend two was an ass, chances are you're not the only one that thinks that. Chances are your—even if your girlfriend isn't dating your wife, and even if your girlfriend's boyfriend isn't dating your wife, nobody wants to be around someone who's an ass. And chances are, generally, people who are assholes—not always, but generally people who are assholes are not just assholes to one person. They kind of spread their assholery around to multiple people. So if he's an asshole to you, he's an asshole to your wife, he's probably also going to be an asshole to your girlfriend and to her local boyfriend.

And as much as you want to protect and save everybody from having to be exposed to this asshole, I think you know what? Have a sit-down with all of you. Say, "Hey, wife's got a second boyfriend. We don't particularly get along very well, but this is a democracy." If it's a democracy, I'm pretty sure this isn't a polygamous setup, where you are the head king and you get to decide who's in and who's coming and going. “But this is a democracy. How do we want to go forward with this? Let's all discuss it. What do you think about second boyfriend? Is this someone—and where do we go forward?”

If your girlfriend gets another boyfriend, is he out? Have a discussion about where this is going, right? Because this is a problem you're going to run into, even if nobody is abusive or nasty or particularly nasty. It's just something—be like, "Hey, the situation has reminded me that there might be situations where we just don't gel. What do we do in those situations?"

But yeah, is it possible? If your answer is, can you possibly have kitchen table and also parallel? Absolutely. There is no rule. We're all making this shit up. Monogamy is made up. Everything, all this, everything's made up. And the points don't matter. Just if you—if you agree on it. That's the most important thing. Everyone should agree as much as possible. Try to make this a democratic decision.

You may have to put up with second boyfriend. It might be that second boyfriend hasn't shown his assholery yet, but I have faith that he will. And I read that book like I said, I think that will also help and understand why—you trying to intervene, I'm not saying you are, but you trying to intervene on the situation won't fix the situation. You just got to be there for your wife and hope that she sees that this dude is an asshole before… It's never too late, because you're always there.

But yeah, I think, have a talk about it. Sit down and talk about it. But it is fully, fully possible. Not everybody has to be automatically included. There's no rule book which says if you have kitchen table, all partners must be included, or it's not really kitchen table. And even if it isn't—you know what? Fuck anyone who decides to dictate to you how your relationship is. You don't—so what if it's not really kitchen table polyamory?

Who gives a rat's ass? It's not like you're going to be tested and, "Oh, you're going to lose your kitchen table license." That's not going to happen. Who gives a fuck? If it's—if it's not something you guys want to do, then don't do it. Basically, I give you permission to exist in the way that you would like to exist.

So yeah, I hope that helps, and good luck.