That’s what’s on this week’s episode of Non-Monogamy Help.

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Podcast Transcript

Feeling lost and in need of advice as I try to navigate the dating world after a 10 year marriage.

I’ve been on the dating apps and found someone literally on my first day on Bumble. Also, newly separated. Also, not divorced yet. Also, with kids. He said literally in his profile about not looking for anything serious.

It’s been nearly a year and everything we do feels and looks like a relationship but he doesn’t have an interest in monogamy and I’m trying to explore that world. We go on trips together, affectionate publicly, share daily life details, talk every day, etc.

I set some boundaries back in January that if these were just opportunities for sex to explore things post divorce, I could get on board with but I didn’t think I could handle someone being “another me.”  I like being his primary sort of go to person and I haven’t needed anymore of a label or commitment than that.

There haven’t been any other sexual partners except for him and one woman he’s known since they were kids. He slept with her back in January and I had a hard time with getting over that but we moved past it and there haven’t been any others since.

This week he sprung it on me that he’s going on a several day trip with this same woman. Why?! Why does it have to be this same woman? I feel like it might feel more comfortable for me if it was a work trip he was on and randomly hooked up with someone that he’ll never see again.

He told me ahead of time and was fully prepared that I wouldn’t ever talk to him again because of what I said about there being “another me.”

Now I’m struggling with “am I faltering on my boundary?” “Is this another me?” “Does he think this is another me?”

I’ve never been in this type of relationship before but I’m an anxious person and have trouble being too nice and people pleasing. I want him in my life but have trouble advocating for myself.

If I continue down this road with him, what are some things I need to be asking for from him to make myself feel more comfortable about a non monogamous situation?

Is this life even cut out for me?

I eventually told him that I wanted him to have a good time but I did want to hear from him while he was gone and I wanted to feel like I’m an important person to him and that he’s thinking about me while he’s gone. Also that I wanted to have plans when he gets back to sort of reconnect. The plans are barely solidified and I’m left waiting on him but that’s sort of always the case with him.

Looking for advice or tips for someone new to this world who doesn’t know what to ask for or how to hack it in this world.

Thanks for listening.

Response

You don't really say if your partner is actually non-monogamous or not. He doesn't have an interest in monogamy, okay? What does he have an interest in? Is he interested in being polyamorous? Is he interested in swinging? Is he interested in having an open relationship? It's not really clear what it is that he's actually interested in, and there's a lot of words doing a lot of heavy lifting here, right, on both sides of the equation.

So he said, literally in his profile, that he's not looking for anything serious. Well, what does that mean? What does that mean? And a lot of people use these shorthands, and even when you're monogamous, I really would really encourage people to not use these shorthands for shit, because what's serious for one person is not serious for another person, and that needs to be defined.

For you, going on trips together and being affectionate in public, meeting friends—that may indicate a serious relationship. For other people that may not. They might go on trips together with anyone. They may introduce their friends to all of the new people that they're dating. And it might not represent an escalation or what's serious at all to somebody else.

Even within monogamy, what makes something "serious" really depends on the person. And there are kind of, yeah, universal relationship escalator things like moving in together that kind of indicate a level of seriousness. But I still think that people would really benefit from actually defining what that is with each other, rather than just letting that word linger and then both people are operating—"Okay, this isn't serious"—under some conception of what that means, and they've never actually sat and talked about it.

Define your terms

And I had the same similar sort of issue with sexual health risk in one of my first relationships. I assumed that we both had the same definition of what a risky sexual activity was, and it turns out we didn't. And then my partner did something that I considered too risky, and then we were kind of like, "Welp, where are we now?" Defining this stuff is really, really important.

And the other thing that kind of sticks out at me is that you say "Everything we do feels and looks like a relationship". And I feel like that's a moment, regardless of whether you decide to be monogamous or not, that's a moment when you need to check yourself, and you need to raise it as a concern. Notice when you have—people have said one thing, and then the reality of the situation seems to be going different.

The replacement marriage problem

And that tends to happen, especially if you've been in a 10-year marriage, you're just starting dating again, you're going to want to fall into the same patterns that you have been doing for the past 10 years, and then you automatically, literally, your first day on Bumble, find somebody in the exact same situation. So you both sort of just slide into a replacement marriage without even really talking about it, but sort of saying, "Well, this isn't that serious," but what does that mean?

And please notice going forward, when you're like, "Okay, he doesn't have an interest in monogamy. He says it's not serious, but it looks and feels like a relationship to me," and I think that your emotions are going to go with that experience over how anybody else describes that experience. So notice when that is happening.

This is a rule, not a boundary

Next thing I want to talk about is you don't set a boundary—this isn't a boundary. This is a rule that you set back in January. And again, this is where words are doing heavy lifting without really explaining what this actually means. And if... this is why I'm wondering if he actually is experienced in non-monogamy or polyamory, because if he has no interest in monogamy, then the second that you come to him and say, "I don't want there to be another me", he should be like, "Well, I'm not interested in monogamy". This is essentially monogamy by another name. Is what this is.

Now there are hierarchical polyam relationships, where you have a primary. But if you never really define what that is, and you're still going off of monogamous scripts, and you're still coming from it—both of you are coming, I don't know if he came from a 10-year marriage, but both of you are coming from a marriage—then essentially, this is what monogamy is, to a certain extent. Obviously, you said you're fine with him having sex with other people. What essentially you wanted was an open relationship where he was allowed to have sex with other people, but he wasn't allowed to have other romantic relationships with other people. And if you both agree to that, that's fine.

You're sitting in the throne anyway

But I think that the reason you didn't need any more of a label or commitment than that, and you did have that, is because you already had that commitment. You were already functioning essentially the exact same way you would, whether or not the label was on it or not. There was already a you. There was already a hierarchical position that you were sitting in. You were sitting on the throne with the crown, and nobody was contesting it. So of course, you're like, "Well, I don't really need the crown," because you're sitting in the throne anyways. It doesn't matter.

So that was—the second that, I feel like he should have probably pushed back more if that wasn't what he wanted, and I could give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he didn't really know what he wanted. Maybe at the time, he didn't have any other contenders. So it wasn't really an issue. But I'm wondering when you set these boundaries, because then you talk about this other partner that he had, this woman that he's known since they were kids. He slept with her back in January. You struggled with that.

So in response to you struggling with that, did you then set that boundary? Because I think that if that's the case, and he knew that he kind of did have romantic feelings for this person or might want to see her again, that would have been the time to discuss what this means. What does it mean for someone being a "another you"? Him going on a several-day trip with the same woman doesn't mean that that person is another you. That's why you need to explain what it is that you mean.

He's been honest from the beginning

What it is to have a serious relationship, because at the end of the day, if he said from the beginning that this is not a serious relationship, then he's kind of been honest with you from the get-go. Now, he should have continuously been honest and pushed back when you said, "I don't want someone to be another me." He should have pushed back and been like, "Well, I said, this isn't a serious relationship. And that sounds like a serious commitment, or that sounds like I'm committing more to you, and that's not what I want."

Ideally, he should have pushed back on that. Maybe he didn't, because he didn't want to end the good, sweet deal he had. So there's a lot of stuff going on here that you're working off of a shared meaning that you both don't have.

Is this what you actually want?

What does it actually mean for there to be another you, and I really, really question if this is actually something that you want. You shouldn't do polyamory or non-monogamy in order to keep a relationship, or because you like someone. You shouldn't be doing this with this guy just because he's not interested in monogamy. And if he's not interested in monogamy, then he should actually push and ask for what he wants, instead of just sort of going along with it and just kind of saying it's not that serious. Well, what does that mean?

If you're acting like it's a relationship, I think he's kind of kidding himself if he thinks that he can kind of do all this stuff with somebody and their feelings would not necessarily develop on either side. So there needs to be more clarity here about what that means.

And I think that you need to really figure out if this is actually what you want. You've never been in this type of relationship before. It's not about whether or not you can hack it. Do you want it? Don't create this sort of situation where this is about whether or not you can tolerate a high level of bullshit from somebody else, because it's absolutely fine if you do not want this and you don't have to settle for, "Okay, I'll let you sleep with other people, but I want to be basically almost a don't ask, don't tell situation." You don't have to settle for that.

I get that it's nice, especially getting back into the dating world after ending a 10-year marriage, feeling really nervous, really scared, it being a long time since you've done that. It must have been nice to just immediately jump back into another safety zone and another comfort level that you're used to being at. But that doesn't mean that you have to go along with something that you don't want.

Do you want to date other people?

Do you want to date other people? You don't mention at all in this letter about whether or not you've dated other people, whether or not you're interested in dating other people. It just seems like this is something you're tolerating, and for what? It would be one thing if this was like, "Yeah, I've been in a 10-year relationship. Our sex drives have changed. Our sexual attraction has changed, and we're interested in exploring the things we've never been able to explore before, and my partner's interested in having sexual experiences with other people." And then you do what Dan Savage calls "tollyamory," where it's like, "Okay, polyamory isn't necessarily what you want, but you don't necessarily want to abandon a 10-year relationship because of this, and there are aspects of that relationship that are worth keeping that mean that you're just not going to abandon it."

But you've been with this guy a year. You came from a 10-year marriage, kind of avoiding a little bit the discomfort of being single, jumping straight into this, and then for what? Yeah, it might have been fun to have this when you were newly separated, but he has been honest from the beginning that he's not interested in monogamy. And you're kind of trying to find a way to make this work. And I'm just like—I get that you, it seems like you have a good connection, but you can find another good connection. You don't have to just put up with this.

Are you okay with less time?

Because the thing of it is, right, okay, you may be happy. He may agree to a situation where he only has a romantic relationship with you and just has kind of sexual connections, and maybe he's more comfortable with a friend-with-benefits. The reason why you'd be fine if he kind of hooked up with someone random is because, again, you've put yourself in that hierarchy—you're in a hierarchical position, and so you're scared of being thrown out of that hierarchical position.

And if he's fine to have that positioning, if he can say, "Oh well, yeah, we're going on a multi-day trip together. But that doesn't mean anything. It's not serious. I just want to go on a fun trip"—would you be freaking out if he went on a multi-day trip with a friend, a several-day trip with a friend? I don't think you'd be freaking out. I think you'd be like, "Okay, have fun with your friend," hopefully. Maybe. But it's something that you need to really think about.

Because regardless of what you choose, you will be choosing a situation where he does not spend all of the time that you would typically get in a monogamous relationship with you. Are you okay with less time? And are you really, genuinely interested? Is there anything—I call it an anchor. It's something personal that you get out of polyamory, and even if it's that you just like having the house on your own for a little bit, a few days—you might be a super independent person, and you don't generally mind if he's away for a few days. There are personal things that you could get out of polyamory that aren't necessarily associated with dating or having other relationships.

Don't do polyamory to avoid being single

But do you have that or are you just putting up with this because you're scared to be alone? Are you just putting up with this because it was convenient to fall back into this very similar style of relationship—it just happened to be with somebody who's not interested in monogamy. So now, instead of breaking up and having to deal with that, you're just trying to make it work so that you don't have to break up.

And I get it. It's not fun to break up. It's not fun to have to be single. That's a really scary thing for a lot of people. But don't do polyamory just so that you can avoid being single. That's not a good reason to do it.

So I think this isn't about whether or not you can hack it. There are some aspects of here that could work. You asking for the kind of reassurance while he's on this multi-day trip—you're trying to be okay with it. I do think that even if you were interested in polyamory, you would still experience this kind of freak out and worry when he's dating someone new. You would still experience this fear about him hooking up with someone again that he's already hooked up with, versus somebody random. All of that is kind of pretty typical and usual. Even if you were super interested in polyamory, I wouldn't necessarily say that that in particular is a sign that it's not for you or anything.

Where's your personal interest?

But I think it's more so the fact that within this letter you don't mention that you have any personal interest in anything. There are some people who, when they're introduced to the concept of polyamory—they may not have been the one to introduce the concept, but they can understand, "Okay, there's something that I could get out of this. There are some personal things that I could explore. There's something in it, personally for me."

But what your letter is is kind of like—it's so focused on you want him in your life. You want to—how do you make yourself more comfortable about being in the situation? It's, how do you tolerate this, instead of how do you—thinking about the positive aspects that it could bring to your life. Are there any positive aspects? Is this something that you genuinely want, or do you just want to avoid breaking up?

And then the other thing that kind of stuck out to me as well is that you said "the plans are barely solidified and I'm left waiting on him". But that's sort of always the case with him. It just kind of seems like you want to have a monogamous relationship. You want to have a typical relationship. You want to be the only person. It just kind of seems like you don't want there to be another you.

He can't promise you won't have feelings

And the thing of it is, is that even if you agreed on a kind of hierarchical structure where you are the only person he intends to have romantic feelings for, he can't promise you that. He can't promise you that he won't have romantic feelings with other people. He can only promise you that maybe you're the only person that he lives with. Maybe you're the only person that he—you share childcare responsibilities. You're the person who's introduced to his children as a stepmother. You're the person who's introduced to his family. He can do things like that, but he can't promise that he will not feel emotionally for anybody else.

And a monogamous person couldn't necessarily promise that to you, either, but I think that that's worth you thinking about.

It's not about hacking it

So yeah, overall, it's not about you hacking it in this world. Do you want to be in this world? Is this something you're genuinely interested in? Please don't do this just so that you can stay in a one-year relationship. If this were your 10-year relationship, and there were things that you really wanted to preserve, and you had a life together, a shared life together, and this was about kind of exploration, and there was a positive aspect of it for you, then it would be one thing. But this is a one-year relationship, and I do really think you should consider: Am I doing this because I actually want this? Is there anything out of the situation, out of polyamory, out of non-monogamy, that is a benefit? Will you go find other boyfriends? Are you interested in dating other people? Do you like being on your own sometimes?

Those are the things that you really, really need to explore on your own without thinking about how to preserve this situation, or how to preserve this relationship. Yeah, I get that you want him in your life, but there are plenty of fish in the sea, and there are plenty of monogamous fish in the sea. There are an extraordinarily huge amount of monogamous fish in the sea that you can find. You don't have to stay in a relationship with someone who is not interested in monogamy, just to make things work.

Get on the same page about what words mean

But I think that I would check out my 101 and 102 articles. Check those out. See if that resonates with you. See if you can talk about what it actually is that you both want, and see if you're actually compatible. And really think about it, because I'm getting a one-sided picture of your partner in this and I don't necessarily know how much he actually knows about non-monogamy or polyamory, or if he's just kind of flying by the seat of his pants.

But I really think that the moment when you tried to bring up that boundary, which was actually a rule, not a boundary—the moment that you tried to come up with that rule of "there shouldn't be another me," I think if he doesn't—he should have voiced more opposition to that, or really clarified what he meant by not being interested in monogamy and by not wanting a serious relationship. What does that actually mean?

Because it doesn't matter if you don't call your relationship serious, if you act as though it is. Functionally, from a brain standpoint, from just an experience standpoint, it truly doesn't matter, because if you behave as though it is anyway, especially in a society that's given you this script of monogamy, and especially after coming out of a decade-long marriage, you're emotionally going to feel like it is anyway. And that doesn't matter, and you don't want to be caught up in these sorts of things again, because I have been in situations where people have behaved in a certain way.

It feels very gaslighting, you know, to yourself, and it does feel crazy-making, because you think, "Okay, well, this isn't called a relationship, but these people are behaving like they're in a relationship either way." Then let's cut it with the words that are supposed to—the definitions that are not shared. You need to figure out if your definitions are actually shared, so that you can come to a mutual sense of understanding of what these words actually mean, what your relationship means to each other, and figure out how to sort that so that you're not both—you're singing from different hymn sheets and the results are going to be quite crappy if you don't have that shared understanding.

So yeah, I hope that helps, and good luck.