That’s what’s on this week’s episode of Non-Monogamy Help.

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Podcast Transcript

I came across your site from a Google search and I’m really glad I did because I feel like you could help me.

My husband and I have partaken in many threesomes together. I will say the way it began was very unconventional as it was due to an emotional affair my husband had. From that emotional affair, he voiced his desire to try out polyamory. At the time I knew nothing of it but I was afraid of losing my husband so I agreed to it.

Well, the other girl involved wasn’t interested in threesomes so the dynamic turned into him having a relationship with her and the one with me. I struggled so badly with this dynamic as it made me feel unwanted and like I wasn’t enough. I was also 8 months pregnant at the time. There did come a point where I told him I couldn’t do it anymore and he needed to stop because I cannot do that dynamic. After some time he finally did but it was nothing but strife the entire time.

Fast forward two years, we still partook in threesomes here and there and we finally got to a better place (or so I thought) and I found out he had been approached by someone about having a threesome with her and some random woman. He agreed to that and actually went to meet them one night. He told me he was meeting his boss for a work dinner but really he was meeting her. When I approached him about it I asked him why he didn’t just tell that girl that I also like threesomes so why didn’t he think to say anything about me? I saw messages between them when they were planning their threesome and he actually called her his girlfriend and everything.

The whole thing was damaging to me. But after some communication with him we decided we’d do threesomes with this one person but we wouldn’t have separate relationships and we wouldn’t hide anything. But the entire time I was anxious and doubtful due to the nature of them meeting in the first place. I couldn’t move past it and I always thought they were hiding things. I actually accused them once I seeing them kiss while saying goodbye and they both freaked out on me.

The dynamic last a little over a year and we did have threesomes but it wasn’t enjoyable anymore. I was constantly critiqued and my anxiety became a problem for both of them. It was taking a toll on me and I questioned everything. I got to a point that having her around annoyed me because my husband was seemingly nicer to her than to me. So I told my husband I can’t do it anymore. I needed to protect my mental health.

Well from that, I think I’ve ruined my marriage because he tells me he wants threesomes and he isn’t interested in working through our issues without threesomes. He also told me he’d never share another desire he has with me again because I’ve ruined this one. I feel at fault for it but am I really? He lied to me. A lot and I looked passed it all. I did what was done to appease him not for me.

And also most recently he took a work trip and I saw someone who resembles the girl involved and i I sent it to him saying “this is how I knowing crazy. That looks like <insert her name>.” He flipped out on me. So much so that my gut was saying something is off so I checked phone records and turns out they talk on the phone regularly. Like for 30+ minutes almost daily.

I know it’s wrong of me to do that for privacy reasons and all but I’m paranoid at this point. And clearly me saying I want transparency doesn’t matter anyways because as he states he’s free to call whoever he wants. I confronted her about it too because she also lied about talking to him and she claims they talk as friends. I do feel utterly insane over this issue and i don’t know how to communicate about it properly.

When I try I’m told by my husband that I am trying to make him suppress who he really is. But when we got married we agreed on monogamy. Anything beyond that was only ever explored because he cheated on me. And now because I’ve said I don’t want to do that anymore it’s like I’m ruining his life. Do you have any advice about this? Even if it to help me get my thoughts about myself straight! I appreciate whatever you can offer.

Response

Wow. So okay, so much to say about this, so much to say about this. Listen, it can be hard out there, I will admit, for people, because non-monogamy is not presented as an option that people can take, especially, I don't know how old you both are, but it seems like this is definitely an issue where sometimes people end up in long-term marriages…

They agree to monogamy without realising that non-monogamy is something that they actually want, that this is part of who they are, and that is legitimate, 110%. I will say that can happen, especially for heterosexual people, and especially for heterosexual people outside of kinky communities and things like that, running across non-monogamy is not something that often happens.

This didn't start on the right foot

However, the issue that I have with this situation, I'm trying really hard not to be furious on your behalf, because okay, there's so many things here. Non-monogamy can be beautiful, but starting off on the wrong foot... people can sometimes have emotional affairs, or sometimes even physical ones, and that starts them off on a journey of being honest with themselves, honest with their partners.

They heal the wounds that they cause, they're apologetic, they're willing to make up for the fact that they violated someone's trust, that they hurt somebody, and they make amends. Non-monogamy can result from that, and it can be really great, it can be a transformative, if not very painful, but also a wonderful thing for those people. However, that happens because the person who fucked up admits that they fucked up and is willing to take ownership of that.

The issue that I have with your husband here, based off the descriptions that you've supplied of the situation, is that A. this situation began from him cheating. He fucked up there, and he has to be able to admit that. Two things can be true at the same time. Yes, he can be inherently polyamorous, that can be part of who he is, but he can also agree that he fucked up.

He can also agree, as you said, that when he married you he agreed to a monogamous situation, and he violated that. Whether or not you're inherently polyamorous or not does not take away from that fact, and he fucked up, and he should be willing to say, "Do you know what, I fucked up."

The cowboying question

Let me double check your letter one second. So I don't know how this came out. Sometimes I feel like when I've seen cheating turn into polyamory that's decent and healthy to a certain extent, it usually is because the person who cheated admitted and fessed up to it. It doesn't say here whether or not you found out that he was cheating, or he came forward and said that he was cheating, and it seems very much like... I can't attest to what's inside of your husband's head.

However, sometimes this is almost like a cowboy, cowgirl, or "cow poke," however non-gendered term you want to call it, situation, where basically somebody comes in and pretends like they want to be polyamorous, but really their desire is to steal your partner away from you and be monogamous with them.

I'm not saying that that's what happened, but this is almost like a threesome-cowboying kind of situation. It feels like your husband wanted something like polyamory the entire time, but then was like, "Oh, it'll just be a threesome," and then that was not the case, and you were eight months pregnant at the time.

I'm so fucking angry on your behalf. Dude, I cannot believe the audacity of this motherfucker. I'm sorry, I'm trying to be calm and impartial, but this is why I can't be a therapist. 100%, this is why. You have, consistently, based off this description, again I'm only getting your side of the story, he has multiple times cheated on you, multiple times lied about shit, multiple times.

It seems like whenever you confront him, or whoever he decides to date about the issue, he flips out and accuses you of trying to oppress him and keep him from being himself. Is "himself" a dick? Is that what he... yeah, I guess in that way, you are trying to stop him from being a total asshole.

This isn't polyamory, it's a mess

I am so angry on your behalf. This is absolutely— this isn't polyamory. This is a hot fucking mess, and I'm so pissed off for you, because you've tried. You're like, okay, he had an emotional affair, however that came out, he wanted to try polyamory, you didn't want to do it, and you agreed to it because you didn't want to lose your husband. I'm so sorry for that, that is the shittiest way to be introduced to this situation.

But hey, you were trying with it, and it was supposed to be, okay, this is supposed to be a threesome thing, and you had done that before, and I wonder if that was his goal the entire time. You were GGG the entire time. But whatever, let's see, there's a difference between being GGG and being a pushover, and you have tried so hard in this situation to make allowances for his shitty behaviour, and he can't even take you going, "Oh my god, that looks like that girl's name," without flipping out on you.

I mean, yeah, is it wrong for you to snoop? Yeah, you shouldn't have snooped. But you know, there's a saying, I don't remember exactly how it goes, but it's like, it's not paranoia if they're actually after you. It's not paranoia when he's a cheating, fucking lying liar and has done this multiple times.

I'm sorry, I should be more dispassionate and objective about this, but this is really... what you're describing here is so insulting to you and so insulting to your intelligence. This is horrible. This is terrible. What you're describing here is not polyamory. It's terrible, that's what this is.

Lied to, over and over

And you've been consistently lied to, both by your husband and by whomever he's dating. And then he acts like it's the threesomes, like, "Oh, we can't work through our marriage issues without me fucking other people." What the fuck? Oh, I'm so mad, I'm so mad on your behalf, man, this is awful, this is awful. "I'm never going to share another desire with you again because you ruined this."

Is he five? Is he a grown-ass man? What the fuck? I'm sorry, I'm really not being very dispassionate about this, but this is so horrible, the way you're being treated. Horrible, gaslighty as fuck, awful. I'm so mad on your behalf.

Yes, you shouldn't have snooped, that is one thing I will say, you shouldn't have snooped. However, yes, two wrongs don't make a right, but it does make you wonder about the situation, and I understand why you did that.

Because when somebody has a huge freakout reaction like that over just an innocuous comment, of course you feel insane, because you're communicating, you're doing your best to communicate in the situation, you're doing your best to try and be understanding, and yet you're being consistently lied to, and then you're being told that you're the one who's the problem. No, you're freaking not. You are not the one that is the problem.

A little grace, and where it runs out

Now, I will say, and I will give maybe a little bit of grace towards your husband, sometimes people don't know how to ask for non-monogamy. People don't know how to ask for polyamory, people don't know how to disclose things. A lot of times I've seen cheating happen in non-monogamy situations because people literally don't know how to have this conversation.

And because they know that when they have to have that conversation, when they know they're going to say something that could end the relationship, their brain is, in ways, naturally going to be like, "let's not do that." You're not inclined to want to do things that you think will challenge or end a relationship.

Having a conversation with your partner where you're like, "Hey, this monogamy thing, not so sure it's for me," I think, you know, if you did threesomes, maybe he had a moment where he was like, "You know what, I think I want more than just that, I don't think the threesomes are enough for me," but having that conversation with you is a potentially relationship-ending conversation.

And so the way you sometimes do that, and I've done this, not in this exact context, but I have definitely, when I was really scared to ask for help, and when I knew that asking for help from my partner would be, it wasn't an intentional test, but it was a test in a way, because if you ask somebody for help and you really need it and they say no, then you have to sit with that.

I knew in the back of my head, not consciously, but I think I knew, that if I asked my partner for help in a really critical situation where I desperately needed it, and they didn't give it to me, I would then have to really think about our relationship, question whether or not our relationship was up to scratch, and that's a really terrifying thing. So instead of asking for help, I would basically try to manipulate the situation so that I would get help without having to ask directly for it.

In your husband's defence, maybe he's extremely emotionally immature and doesn't know how to just ask you for polyamory, and instead is doing all this horribly gaslighty, shitty behaviour because he is scared to ask for what he wants. Okay, I feel sympathy for that. But being so unwilling to work through anything, and putting you in a situation... this is what makes me so angry about this situation.

You are being put in a situation where, basically, if you don't want to do any of this anymore, then you're stopping him from being himself, he can't be truly who he is, he can't share things with you. Bullshit, bullshit. And yeah, I just think that whilst I have sympathy for the fact that maybe he is so emotionally incapable and insecure that he's unable to ask directly for what he wants, I run out of that sympathy when it starts to hurt other people, and it is hurting you, and also his partners.

His other partner deserves better too

I would not like this. I think I would be really bothered if somebody, if I was talking with someone and we were, obviously, getting a little bit more romantic, a little bit more flirty, and then their partner came up to me and was like, "Are you guys...?" I wouldn't be like, "Oh, it's just..." I think some people also don't know how to deal with it, but I just couldn't deal with being part of that situation. So it's going to attract people who are cool with this, and some people, oddly enough, are much, much more comfortable with participating in cheating than in polyamory. I don't know, I don't get that, that's not for me.

I just think you're not trying to suppress who he really is, that is not what you want. You have done everything that you can to try and be understanding, and you are right, you got married, you agreed on monogamy, if he wanted to change that, that's fine, but that needs to be something that you're both agreeing on, and that's what he should have asked for from the beginning.

It doesn't sound like he specifically asked you for polyamory, it doesn't sound like he discussed with you how other partners would play into your life, and you were pregnant, you're going to have a child, you have to think about this kind of stuff, because that also affects the life of the child who didn't ask for any of this.

You're not ruining his life

You're not ruining his life, and you're not a terrible person. It's okay if you don't want to do polyamory. It's okay if you're cool with having a threesome here or there, but you're just not into polyamory, that's fine, you don't have to be into polyamory.

And even if you were into polyamory, the situation is not cool. How can you trust a person who consistently lies to you, who consistently flips out, people flipping out on you for asking questions, people flipping out on you for making comments? And you should also be able to be a little bit imperfect.

What does he want? Does he want you? You said you tried, you did have a threesome with this person, but I don't know who was constantly critiquing you, but you were having anxiety about it, and it was taking a toll on you, and you didn't want to participate anymore.

And your husband is nicer to her than to you. Jesus Christ on a cross. And then you didn't want to do it anymore, and I'm sorry, what were you supposed to do? Were you supposed to suck it up? What was the option? Does he really want a person who is unhappy, sleeping with him and her? Is that what he wants?

Nobody should have sex they don't want

Side rant, I really don't understand the type of person who is okay having sex with a person who doesn't want to do what they're doing. What the fuck is wrong with you? I don't think you would want that. Nobody... look, I'm getting annoyed now, because that's such a horrible thing.

Sometimes, yes, we do things sexually that we aren't super into for the sake of our partners, because we want our partners to enjoy themselves, there is a give and take there, whatever, but I would not... who wants that? Who is comfortable with that?

You have to be a shitty person to be like, "Yeah, if I'm having sex with someone I don't really care what's going on inside their brain, that they're not happy with this, that they're uncomfortable, that they're not enjoying it to the point where it's affecting their mental health." Are you serious? You're fine with that? You're ruining the marriage because you don't want to just shut up and have sex with people that you don't want to have sex with? Think about that for a goddamn second. That's awful.

You're not ruining your marriage

Oh my god, anyway, I feel like I've gone all over the place, I'm sorry. Normally the situation would be, okay, maybe you can work on some stuff in couples therapy, maybe you can, but I don't know that you can work on this, because it seems like every single time you've attempted to have a conversation about this, it seems like he's basically just deflected it onto you. Yeah, I don't know.

I wish that I had better things to offer, and I don't blame you for not being able to get your thoughts straight, because hell, this is making me pissed off to the point where I'm struggling to keep my thoughts straight. But suffice it to say, you're not ruining your marriage. From the description that you've given me, I don't think you're ruining your marriage, I don't think you're forbidding him from being himself, unless himself is just being a cheating asshole who gets to sleep with whoever he wants without caring about what that person feels or thinks. Yeah, I guess you are preventing him from being himself, if that's who he actually is.

It’s not to say that you're purely innocent, you've never done anything wrong, yeah, you shouldn't have snooped, but Je-SUS, this situation. I'm so sorry that you're going through this, because this is awful. This is awful, to be treated this way, and you don't deserve to be treated this way. That's awful. Has he even ever apologized once for hurting your feelings? Has he ever said he's sorry for cheating on you? For fuck's sake.

Practical next steps

If you do go to a therapist, please, please be aware there's a book called "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft, which I recommend that everyone read, because I think it's a really, really important book. I'm not saying that I can classify your husband as an abuser or anything like that, but there are many cases where going to a couples therapist with somebody who is abusive can make things worse.

So if you're ever going to go to a couples therapist with him, or if you're going to try therapy, please make sure that you work with a therapist who is super familiar and experienced in dealing with abusive people, mostly abusive men, but everybody, all partners can be abusive, but make sure that you find a therapist that is used to that. I would talk to a lawyer, talk about your rights. I really genuinely hope that you have your own financial independence and that you have your own ability to sort shit out.

I honestly don't know if I have any positive things to contribute to this, because I just think this is awful. This is absolutely fucking shitty. You've been lied to multiple times, you've had someone... you're trying your best to work with this, but you can't do all the work for two people. You can't pull all the weight. You can't make him want to fix this situation if he refuses to fix it, and if, basically, the only way to fix it is you shutting up and having sex that you don't want to have, that's disgusting, that is disgusting, absolutely unacceptable.

Recap

So yeah, I wish that I had better things to offer in this situation, but I really think that you should just take care of yourself. I really think you should speak to a lawyer, speak to a therapist for your own self, and see what your options are, because you do not have to deal with this. If you don't want monogamy, or if you just want a little spicy monogamy, a little bit of monogamy with a side of, sometimes we have threesomes, that's fine. You don't have to do polyamory if you do not want it, and you definitely don't have to do it with somebody who is this disrespectful to you, you don't deserve this.

So please find out what your options are, please be independent, find your independence, find some help, reach out to your family, reach out to your friends, ask them for help. And if you do see a couples therapist with this guy, please make sure it is a therapist who has some familiarity and experience working with abusive people. I'm not going to diagnose, because I obviously only have your half of the situation, I don't know what's going on inside of his head, and I can only trust the words that you've given me.

But please, please, please make sure you do that, and also read the book "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft, because I think it's really, really important.

So yeah, I hope this helps, and good luck.