That’s what’s on this week’s episode of Non-Monogamy Help.

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Podcast Transcript

My partner and I are looking to move in together in a month or so. They began a new job less than 3 months ago and recently shared with me that they and a coworker have a crush on each other and that they were gonna talk and figure out how they would like to proceed/act on their feelings.

When I received the information, I absorbed it but did not process it until a few days later when I discussed it with my other partner and my meta. When I talked to them about it, my meta pointed out to me that she noticed I had strong feelings and opinions about my partner and his coworker and that I should share my feelings and thoughts with my partner as soon as possible.

After spending time reflecting, I discovered that I assumed most people would not dabble with the idea of dating coworkers and by extension would not act on it since it seems complicated in nature. I believe the cons of dating a coworker seem to outweigh the pros, I worry about the repercussion including fathoming my partner being terminated from work. I personally would not date a coworker, and I know that’s my boundary, but I struggled with understanding why my partner would consider it, rationalize it, and act on it.

I sought different options about considerations when thinking about dating a coworker, and I felt that my views were reinforced by my friends and members of my poly support groups. No one I spoke with mentioned that they thought entanglement with a coworker was a good idea even if my partner’s coworker is also non-monogamous.

Most folks I spoke with mentioned that they thought that my partner was inconsiderate of my feelings before making this decision. And most folks disagreed with partner deciding to act on this crush at this moment since feels like poor timing considering we are planning on moving together soon.

I realized that I disagree with my partner’s decision to pursue what they eventually described to me as a RA approach to develop and discover a non-platonic dynamic with their coworker. I do not agree with his decision to become entangled with his coworker in any other capacity besides the heteronormative definition of a platonic relationship.

I question his character with this decision especially due to feeling like decision came out of nowhere. The only alluring of this change in their dynamic was when they asked me to proofread a message to this coworker to clarify intention of an upcoming date to the library. And at that point I thought my partner was defining expectations to avoid misreading the room, not that they were interested in a potential dynamic change with a coworker.

When I checked in with my partner again, I shared that I currently find myself struggling to keep up with the current changes in our relationship since we went from being in a LDR of 2 years until just about 3 months ago when he moved back to start this job. I am a very slow processor of information and changes; it is probably my autism.

I feel like being closer in proximity requires more labor to maintain our needs and wants in our relationship by active emotional availability and open communication. I mentioned that I have a lot of other simultaneous stressors, and I feel low in my capacity to navigate further stress/changes in our relationship including this decision. I feel as if I was not asked to consent if I had the capacity to hold space for my partner in this regard and whether I was available to navigate these new changes in his dynamic with a coworker.

I feel as if my partner is also managing a lot in their life due to starting a full-time job. I noticed that their time, energy and capacity are a lot different now than when he was a student. I worry about what I perceive as them “wanting to have it all.” For example, overbooking his weekends to social commitments while trying to keep up with other areas of their life.

I also worry that we are spending a lot of time together and that it is also keeping them from getting to handle other demands in their life like chores and other adulting matters. Although I think there is some truth to my observations about his capacity since stress is affecting their health and they report being exhausted and drained from work, I also worry that I am generalizing on behalf of my partner. About their capacity to handle further stress or relationship dynamics in non-monogamy at this moment.

I consider that that I might have been making myself small by not asking for more of their time than our designated time together once a week. I think it comes from not wanting to add any more to their plate, feeling like too much, or a burden. We share each other’s calendar. And I noticed that if I saw that they already had plans scheduled, I would not reach out because I was afraid of the possibility of being rejected and I did not want to be a factor that would jeopardize or demand changes to their original plans.

I notice now that maybe I have been projecting, and I am struggling to differentiate my fears and worries from a plausible boundary that I might need at this time. I know I need to be clearer in communication of my needs and wants, in addition to not assuming other people’s capacity for connecting with others and meeting the demands of their lives.

However, what I am struggling with now is that my partner expressed to me that they were hurt and upset by how I reacted to the news. They mentioned that they expected and wanted me to give them support and feel excited for them about their decision. To which I replied that I am likely going to struggle to do that. I share that I wanted to be cool and chill with his decision but that my feelings are not in agreement with this decision. I told him that for now I only have capacity to trust their choice.

I also mentioned I need time to figure out my emotional capacity and boundaries as to how I can show up and hold space/support for my partner in his decision and how it affects our relationship. I find myself thinking and wanting to say if they can wait to act on this crush, I think it comes from a place of fearing he might not prioritize our relationship or that they’ll be distracted with NRE. I don’t want to control or restrict his choice, and I am unsure what I need from my partner at this moment to feel safe and reassured.

I need help figuring out how to establish boundaries regarding this. I am also struggling to differentiate all the stressors in our relationship currently, it all feels very overwhelming. Any further advice would be greatly appreciated because I want to be sensible and allow room for all of our emotions and needs. I want to be able to connect and find solutions, but I am unsure where to start. Any other considerations I have missed are also welcomed.

Response

So first things first, I understand going to other partners and metas and discussing relationships, but personally, I really think that's something that you shouldn't do. It's fine to ask friends about your romantic relationships. I think that's a really important thing. I think there's a big reason why people who are abusive try to isolate their victims and keep them away from their friends and family. It's because friends offer that sort of like, they're kind of biased towards you, but they can like, check you and also point out things that you might be missing.

But metamours and other partners and other people involved in the situation are really not ideal, because they have skin in the game, more or less, and it's a really awkward thing for them. So I would really, really, really encourage you to avoid using your other partners or metamours for this purpose, because it's just not really fair on them. There's a power issue here, and yeah, I just wouldn't do that. I would seek a polyamory-friendly therapist, as I've said, to talk through things with, or talk through things with your friends. Reaching out to your community is absolutely fine. But really, really, would avoid doing that again, just because I just don't think it's—they shouldn't be involved in that. That's my personal opinion.

On dating co-workers

For me personally, dating a co-worker is not an issue. I know that lots of people like to have ideas about what makes things messy and what makes things not messy, and for some people, if they don't want to date a co-worker, that's fine.

I think it would depend, because I personally am so rarely attracted to people. I'm not the kind of person who very frequently finds myself having strong feelings for people. So if I had strong feelings for someone and they just happened to be someone that I worked with, I mean, I would definitely have trepidation for myself, and I definitely would be a little bit anxious about it, just because, for obvious reasons, like, if you break up, you have to find another job. That's super stressful. There's lots of reasons why I would be a little hesitant, but I still would want to act on my feelings, because fucking YOLO, like you only live once.

I would make sure, obviously, that I'm following any company policies or things like that. But like people—I know that now, in the digital age, people are more frequently meeting people on dating sites, but workplaces used to be places where people met people. And I get that people are afraid of conflict and afraid of drama, but it's only as dramatic as people make it. You just because you meet someone in a bar or at a dating place doesn't mean there's not going to be drama. This concept—I get why people are saying this, but I just feel like there's a lot of judgment going on here that isn't really fair.

Okay, if you don't want to date somebody at your workplace, that's totally legit. That's fine. That's your boundary. Or I wouldn’t even call it a boundary. That's like your own personal decision of what you want to do with your life. That's other people's personal decisions of what they want to do with their lives. But I feel like there's a lot I don't know about the situation that is calling on the ethics of your partner that isn't really fair. This isn't an unethical situation. I mean, unless it's somebody that your partner is a line manager for, that would be an ethical problem. But if it's just something that's just someone that they work with, I don't understand why all of a sudden there's like this big ethical judgment of your partner.

The actual ethical issue

I think you're kind of deciding that this means something about your partner that I don't know if you have any other evidence to suggest that your partner's ethics are not in line with yours, and it's kind of not really fair.

Now, the thing of it is, and the one thing that I will say about this situation—I wouldn't mind dating a co-worker, necessarily. It would depend on the context, but I would have a huge problem for myself and only for the people that I am dating. And, you know, discuss—if we're discussing this, I usually keep my relationships pretty parallel, and I also am solo polyam, so I don't have any interest in living with people. So there's a lot like that doesn't apply to me in the situation.

But if I had a co-worker, and that co-worker knew that I had a partner, but they didn't know I was non-monogamous, and they hit on me, or like, confessed a crush to me, I would have a huge issue with that, even if I actually did have feelings for them, because what that tells me is that they're okay with cheating. And I'm not okay with that.

So I actually, like, I've had really complicated ethical situations where I dated people, and I think now going forward, one of the questions I would ask somebody before I entered any kind of committed relationship with them is, are you okay with helping someone cheat? Because I'm not okay with helping someone cheat. I'm not okay with dating somebody who would help someone cheat, and I would not be okay with somebody who was attracted to me and expressed that attraction to me knowing that I had a partner and not knowing that I was non-monogamous. They had every reason to assume I was monogamous and basically tried to start an affair with me. I would have a huge problem with that. I wouldn't be okay with that.

If that is actually the reason why you're questioning your partner's ethical judgment, that's valid, and that's something to pay attention to.

A personal experience

And I have been in situations where, like, I, you know, I have basically had to come to an agreement with my partner that if they were going to knowingly help someone cheat, then they can't tell me about it, because I—they have to not involve me in that, because I have been with somebody and they were helping somebody else cheat, and they knew they were helping somebody else cheat.

That person said, "I have a partner. They think I'm monogamous." They knew full well, and I felt like I was an accomplice by knowing that information. And I didn't like that. It made me want to tell the person who was being cheated on, although there's a lot of ethical considerations with that, and it's a complicated situation, but I don't want to know that. I don't want to be involved in that.

And now going forward, I do and will ask anybody that I consider being in a long-term relationship with or consider being involved with, would you be okay helping someone cheat? Because that reflects some ethical differences that are not reconcilable between me and another partner.

The real issue

And it may be—if that's what's going on here, if your problem isn't necessarily that it's a co-worker, but that it's somebody who knew that your partner was dating somebody else, if they knew and hit on them or flirted with them or crossed some boundaries that would be completely unacceptable in most monogamous situations, or at the very least questionable, then that is an issue, and that is fine to have an ethical (objection) about.

And I think that you're taking a good approach there. Like, sometimes that's enough for people to break up. It's up to you in terms of how you feel about it. If you want to say, like, "Hey, I don't support you being in this relationship," and that's what I did when I was dating somebody who was helping someone cheat. I was like, "I don't support this. I don't want to hear about it. I don't want to meet this person”. Like I normally am fine meeting metamours. But I was like, “I don't want to meet this person.

“I don't want to be involved. This is an unethical situation, and if you talk to me about it, I'm going to remind you of how unethical the situation is, and I'm going to express my discontent. I'm not going to be happy about it, and I'm not going to support it because it's unethical." And that's, you know what, that is what it is. As we would say in where I grew up, don't start nothing, won't be nothing. Don't come up to me and ask me about the situation when you know how I feel about it. So that's how I dealt with that situation.

That could be how you deal with the situation, but I don't know about the details here.

Sometimes it gets fuzzy

Like, sometimes it gets kind of fuzzy, you know, because like in monogamy, people also don't tend to discuss with each other what is cheating. And sometimes people can be a little flirty, and it kind of, you know, it's a little bit ambiguous. I hate that ambiguous shit personally, but people love that shit. I don't know. I don't get it. It's not for me. But you know, sometimes things are a little—and maybe someone's a little flirty, maybe when it kind of escalates, you know, and nobody says anything, but it's kind of like obvious, except for if you're autistic and you can't read non-verbal communication.

But yeah, you know, it gets to be like that, and I can see how, if it was on these kind of weird, mildly flirtatious borders, I wouldn't necessarily consider that. Like, if I—personally, if this person knew that your partner was dating you, that they were partnered, and they had no idea that—like, they're going to assume monogamous partnered, right, in this society. That little flirtatious—I just, I wouldn't be okay with that. Like, that would fall into unethical boundaries, and I think I would want to have that spelled out a little bit more, you know?

So like, it depends on the situation, but I think if you don't feel comfortable—like, I don't think this is about being a co-worker, because obviously, them being co-workers provides them with an opportunity to interact more frequently. But it's more messy to me if it's like that person thought that they were monogamous and then decided to flirt with them and kind of try and see if an affair was possible. That would be the elephant in the room that I would have to address.

Polyamory isn’t permission to cheat

And I think, like, if I were in this situation, I would want to have a sit down. Like, I would—this is a little less parallel than I'd like to be. But I think when it involves like potential infidelity, I personally am going to be a little bit more of a nosy bitch. That's just how I am. And I think I would sit down with my partner and this co-worker, and I'd be like, "So I want to understand what's going on here. And I would like to understand because you were flirting together. And like, did you know that he was with me? Did you know that we were non-monogamous? Let's get down to the brass tacks here, and let's confront the issue”. Because I'd rather confront it than be in this weird place of like, I want to be supportive, but then he's left with someone who was okay with cheating, and if they're okay with cheating, then it's not—you know, polyamory isn't like permission to cheat. That's not what it is. So I would want to hammer that out."

Stop project managing your partner

The other thing, though, I hesitate to make the suggestion for you, because I feel like you're project-managing your partner. Like, there's a lot—like your way is involved. And I get—like, I feel like a lot of people in your situation, and I am a bit confused about whether your partner's pronouns are they or he or both. So I'm just going to use they as a safeguard. But like, you know a lot about what's going on in their lives. You're like worried that they're not cleaning their own house.

Like, I get why you're worried about that, but your partner is a grown-ass human, and you really need to step back from project manager, because you're literally—what you're doing is that you look at their calendar, you're like, "Oh, there's a lot. I don't want to ask for what I want”. Instead of giving your partner the opportunity to like, actually make decisions, you're protecting them from making decisions, and then you're kind of blaming them for their own inability to manage their life. You're basically helping them to their own detriment, in a way.

If they can't handle having multiple relationships, like if they can't handle the scheduling bit, if they can't learn, then that's on them. And you protecting them from learning that lesson is not going to benefit either of you in the end, in my opinion. Like, I would stop tiptoeing around them and stop wrapping them in cotton wool and trying to protect them from the reality of being an adult. Ask for what you want, and if your partner can't keep up with that, then maybe you're not compatible. Maybe you want from them things that they are not capable of giving you. And shrinking for the sake of making more space in their life will only suffocate you. It's not going to fix the problem.

Resentment will build

And then what's going to happen is resentment is going to build up, especially like if you can't—like, if you're not being honest about your needs, which, like I said, resentment is going to build. And they also cannot meet needs that you're pretending you don't have. And that's not fair to them, in a way, because like, what they might assume is you're not asking for more time, therefore you don't need more time, therefore they can fill this—like, this time that they have with other people. And then you might be like, "Oh, they're spending more time with other people than they are with me," but you've not asked for that time. So like, you've got to stop project-managing your partner, project-managing their adult life. Because it's not going to help you in the long run, in so many ways.

And I really—I get the like, I used to do this a lot, not even just with partners. Like, when I moved into a place with other people who were my age, I just decided that I was the house project manager, mostly because I just didn't trust other people to be able to be adults and like, meet deadlines, and I was just too fearful of trusting other people. So I was like, "I will be in charge. I will make sure all the bills are paid, and I will be the project manager of the house," and it made me so angry and resentful and frustrated. It added way more stress in my life than I needed it to, and it was all my fault. Like, I can't really completely blame other people.

Yeah, people could have stepped up. People could have been like, "Oh, I noticed that you're taking on a lot here. Let me take some of that, since I'm an equal adult, a grown fucking member of this household." They didn't. But I could have also not chosen to self-establish myself as the project manager of the house, and that's like a whole anxious thing, which like, you can work on with a therapist as well, the kind of fear of like, trusting other people and letting them fail, or letting them—I get it.

Like, when you're in a shared household, and like, somebody doesn't pay the water bill, and now you have no water, obviously, that's a problem, but you have to allow other people the ability to fuck up. They have the ability to make mistakes, because you can't control everything.

Ask for what you need

And especially in this situation where you are basically ignoring your own needs because you don't trust your partner to be able to manage their own life—that is not going to work out well for either of you. You have to be honest with your partner about what you actually need. And there's a lot of sitting in discomfort in polyamory, but a lot of people think is that it's just about sitting in the discomfort of like your partner's dating somebody else, and you might be jealous.

That's not the only discomfort you have to sit in. The discomfort of like asking for what you want and either dealing with being told no, or you know, having to come to the realisation that maybe, you know, either that you know, you ask for what you want, maybe you don't like need it. Maybe it's fine to be told no. Maybe it's fine to have people reschedule. That's fine, but at some point, if you are not compatible with each other, if you want more time than your partner wants to give to you, no amount of preventing the inevitable is going to change that. No amount of you tiptoeing or trying to manage their schedule is going to change that.

So it's much better for you to know now than it is for you to know 10 years later, when you've like, exhausted yourself and resentment is built to critical levels. Like, get it over with now so that you actually know whether or not you're compatible with each other.

Talk about your ideal polyam setup

I'd also recommend you like both sitting down thinking about like, your ideal polyam situation. Like, how much time do you want to spend on your own? How much time do you want to spend with other partners? Like, you do have other partners, so like, maybe you already have that worked out. And you know, I think sometimes, like, what I notice a lot in relationships is that sometimes there are people who want to do the work, do this type of work, and there's sometimes people that don't want to do the work.

And sometimes the people that do want to do the work end up project-managing the people who don't want to do the work. And whilst I understand some of that, we really, really have to step back. The people who want to do the work really, really have to step back sometimes and let people fall on their faces, because project-managing our partners is just not going to—like, sometimes it's fine, like, relationships aren't always a fully equal thing all of the time, especially like, people get sick, things happen, but you can't be doing that all of the time for everybody, because it's just going to exhaust the hell out of you.

Summary

So yeah, to recap, I want to know more. More context is needed about this co-worker situation. I would definitely have a huge problem with it, not because of the co-working, but because of the aspect of whether or not they knew that your partner was dating somebody, and the natural assumption then would be that you're monogamous and basically tried to elicit an affair. There might be a whole issue. Sometimes what happens when that happens is that they go ahead and they approach the person like, "Oh, actually, this isn't an affair. I'm actually in an open relationship," and then that other person stops being interested. Sometimes that happens, but anyway, I think that is more the ethical issue for me.

If that's your reason for the ethical problem, then that's totally understandable. And you don't have to support—you don't have to—that doesn't mean you have to break up, but you know your partner needs to understand. If that is the reason for your ethical disagreement, that you are allowed to disagree with this ethically.

Now, if it's just that it's a co-worker and it might get messy, I don't think that's a fair ethical judgment, because any relationship can be messy. The idea—I just think that people are being—I understand why people have this rule, and that's fine, but it's not fair to assume that just because you find a situation difficult, because it might get messy, that because other people are less afraid of that, or they, you know, they maybe don't mind finding another job. There's all sorts of reasons why people would be okay with this, but assuming that that's because they're willing to be unethical is not really fair.

Again, you're project-managing your partner and sacrificing yourself to make your partner's life easier, and that's not fair. It's going to build up resentment. You've got to stop doing it.

I think you're also way too involved in like, every aspect of their life, and you need to take a little bit of a step back there. I also kind of disagree with the idea that there's a right time for your partner to pursue other relationships, and that your partner needs to wait until you're feeling better before they have other relationships. Like, there's no perfect time. And sometimes relationships happen organically, and people develop crushes and stuff like that happens.

It's not on our time that that stuff happens, and it's much better that like, people are like, be honest about it, rather than trying to—I just don't agree with the idea that your partner should try and put a stopper on their feelings for someone else just because of a move. I just don't agree with that. I understand the feeling behind it, but I don't necessarily agree with that, and I don't necessarily think it's inconsiderate for your partner to talk about being interested in somebody just because there's other major changes going on. It depends on how well your partner is supporting you in other capacity.

If they stopped—like if somebody had passed away in your family and you really needed support, you asked for support, and then your partner's like, "No, no, I have a date with somebody," that would be different. But that's more about not actually supporting you than it is about the timing of that date necessarily. Like, if they—it doesn't matter about that. It could not be a date. It could be, "No, I'd rather play video games instead." Like, that's why it's not about the date.

So I don't necessarily agree with that. Really, stop tiptoeing so much and wrapping them in cotton wool and ask for what you want. If you're not compatible in terms of how much time they want to give you, that's going to occur regardless. Like, you can't alter their compatibility by monitoring their schedule and making yourself accommodating. Ask for what you want, because if you don't, you're just going to feel resentment. It's not a good thing for you or for that other person. Like, they should also be able to sit in the discomfort of telling you no, and you're kind of protecting them from the reality of managing their own life. And they need to learn how to do that.

So yeah, I hope that helps, and good luck.